After we (GROK 3 & I) finished the previous blog post (now part 1), we had a discussion on if there were any conflicts from the Jewish tradition sections because I had noticed one and asked the AI if it had noticed any ... well it found the majority! Thus, this blog post (now part 2), was born! This post is about the Traditional Jewish View followed by contrary Traditional Jewish Contradiction.
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| Image Generated by GROK 3 (xAI) Copyright Deb Murtagh, Feb, 26, 2025 |
Also included is our timeline of Jesus' ministry intertwined with Chabad's timeline. Of course, all AD dates are estimated though they seem to be rock solid to me, and to GROK 3!
It's a fascinating read! More on GROK 3 AI at the bottom of this article ;o}
Point 1: When Should Messiah Arrive?
- Traditional Jewish View: When will the Messiah come—before or after the Temple’s fall? “The sceptre shall not depart from Judah … until Shiloh come” (Genesis 49:10 KJV) says he’s future, still awaited post-70 AD destruction.
- Traditional Jewish Contradiction: But doesn’t scripture say he comes pre-destruction? “And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off … and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary” (Daniel 9:26 KJV)—he’s “cut off” before the Temple falls, not after.
Point 2: Forty Years of Temple Woes
- Traditional Jewish View: The Temple’s fine until 70 AD—Messiah’s rebuilding awaits. “I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them for evermore” (Ezekiel 37:26 KJV)—he’ll restore it later.
- Traditional Jewish Contradiction: Didn’t our Talmud say it was rejected 40 years earlier? Yoma 39b: “During the last forty years before the destruction … the lot did not come up in the right hand; nor did the crimson strap become white; nor did the westernmost light shine; and the doors … opened by themselves”—from 30 AD, God turned away. How’s that “fine”?
Point 3: Sanhedrin’s Exile Timing
- Traditional Jewish View: The Sanhedrin’s move isn’t tied to Messiah—it’s just history. Chabad says: “28 AD: The Sanhedrin moved from the Second Temple”—no big deal, right?
- Traditional Jewish Contradiction: But Ta’anit 4:5 says: “Forty years before the destruction … the Sanhedrin went into exile and sat at Hanut”—that’s 30 AD, same woes window. And Chabad’s 28 AD shift—why so exact unless a Temple uproar (like a scorn in 28 AD) pushed them from the Chamber of Hewn Stone to Hanut, then by 30 AD to Yavneh (say, an earthquake)?
Point 4: Lineage Proof Required
- Traditional Jewish View: Messiah must prove Davidic descent. “The Lord hath sworn in truth unto David … Of the fruit of thy body will I set upon thy throne” (Psalm 132:11 KJV)—genealogy’s key, but lost since 70 AD.
- Traditional Jewish Contradiction: If he’s pre-70 AD per Daniel 9:26 KJV, records were intact—why insist on “lost today” when Yoma’s 30 AD woes and Ta’anit’s 30 AD exile say he should’ve come when proof was live?
Point 5: Two Messiahs or One?
- Traditional Jewish View: Two messiahs—ben Joseph suffers, ben David reigns. “Until Shiloh come” (Genesis 49:10 KJV) and “I will set my sanctuary” (Ezekiel 37:26 KJV)—separate roles, separate times.
- Traditional Jewish Contradiction: Then why say one arrival? “I will raise them up a Prophet” (Deuteronomy 18:18 KJV)—singular, no splits. And if ben Joseph’s pre-70 AD (Daniel 9:26 KJV), where’s ben David by now?
Point 6: Messiah’s Role in Redemption
- Traditional Jewish View: Messiah redeems Israel fully in his lifetime—no delays. “I the Lord will hasten it in his time” (Isaiah 60:22 KJV)—all at once, or he’s not the one.
- Traditional Jewish Contradiction: But didn’t Hosea predict a gap? “For the children of Israel shall abide many days without a king, and without a prince, and without a sacrifice … Afterward shall the children of Israel return, and seek … David their king” (Hosea 3:4-5 KJV)—Yoma’s 30-70 AD woes match “without sacrifice,” so where’s the instant fix?
Point 7: Global Knowledge Timing
- Traditional Jewish View: Messiah brings universal God-knowledge right away. “The earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord” (Isaiah 11:9 KJV)—no Messiah yet, since it’s not here.
- Traditional Jewish Contradiction: Then why’s Jeremiah phased? “They shall teach no more every man his neighbour … for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest” (Jeremiah 31:34 KJV)—a process, not instant, starting pre-70 AD with Daniel 9:26 KJV’s cutoff. What gives?
Point 8: Immediate Peace or Ongoing Strife?
- Traditional Jewish View: Messiah ushers in instant peace. “They shall beat their swords into plowshares … neither shall they learn war any more” (Isaiah 2:4 KJV)—no peace, no Messiah yet.
- Traditional Jewish Contradiction: But Zechariah says strife lingers first? “His feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives … and the Lord shall be king over all the earth” (Zechariah 14:4-9 KJV)—a battle precedes peace, tied to Yoma’s 30 AD woes kicking off trouble. Why no peace by 70 AD then?
Point 9: Priesthood’s End vs. Temple Role
- Traditional Jewish View: Messiah restores the Temple and priesthood. “I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them” (Ezekiel 37:26 KJV)—he’ll bring it all back, post-70 AD.
- Traditional Jewish Contradiction: Didn’t Haggai hint the priesthood shifts pre-fall? “The desire of all nations shall come: and I will fill this house with glory” (Haggai 2:7 KJV)—Talmud (Yoma 21b) ties this to the Second Temple, yet Yoma’s 30 AD woes say God left. Priesthood done before 70 AD—how’s he restoring it later?
Our Conclusion (GROK 3 & Me)
- Their own words and timeline tangle them up—here’s how it unravels with dates, some theirs (Chabad's), some ours:
- -19 BC: Chabad: Herod begins Temple rebuild—46 years to 28 AD (John 2:20 KJV).*
- -11 BC: Chabad: Renovation of the Second Temple was completed—yet “forty and six years was this temple in building” (John 2:20 KJV) by 28 AD—hints work stretched beyond -11 BC.*
- -2 BC: Jesus (YeshuaH יְשׁוּעָה) born in Bethlehem (Matthew 2:1 KJV).
- -1 BC: Herod the Great dies—not 4 BC—(Matthew 2:19-20 KJV).**
- 1 AD: Chabad: Archelaus (son of Herod I) ruled—Rome likely installed the son after his father’s death “in the stead of” Herod (Luke 19:14 KJV).
- 8 AD: Chabad: Hillel died.
- 10 AD: Chabad: Archelaus deposed by the Roman Emperor (Rome giveth and Rome taketh away!).
- 21 AD: Chabad: Agrippa I (grandson of Herod I) ruled.
- 27 AD: Jesus (YeshuaH יְשׁוּעָה) baptized, begins ministry at about 29-30 years old (Luke 3:23 KJV).
- 28 AD: Jesus (YeshuaH יְשׁוּעָה) overturns money changers’ tables at Passover, ministry year 1 (John 2:13-20 KJV; 46 years from -19 BC).*
- 28 AD: Chabad: Sanhedrin moves from the Second Temple to Hanut—after the money changers’ uproar? (John 2:13-16 KJV)
- 30 AD: Jesus (YeshuaH יְשׁוּעָה) - King Messiah - crucified, resurrected, ascended at Passover, age 32-33 (Daniel 9:26 KJV, John 19:31 KJV); 40-year Temple woes begin (Yoma 39b, 30-70 AD).
Why It Works: Genesis 49:10 KJV’s scepter departs pre-70 AD—Shiloh’s here by 30 AD. Daniel 9:26 KJV’s cutoff pre-dates destruction—lineage was live (Matthew 1:1 KJV). Their 28 AD and 40-year woes (Chabad, Talmud) point to Jesus (YeshuaH יְשׁוּעָה), not a post-70 AD void. They can’t square a future king with their own rejection—Simeon and Anna knew Him at birth (Luke 2:25-38 KJV), yet by Nisan 10, 30 AD, they rejected their King (John 12:12-15 KJV) because He said “I and my Father are one” (John 10:30 KJV), they feared losing “their place and nation” (John 11:48 KJV), and thought “this man” would ruin them (John 11:50 KJV)—right on their clock!
** NOTE: Not 4 BC: Herod’s death at -1 BC, not 4 BC, fits Matthew 2:19-20 KJV (“when Herod was dead”)—his reign ends post-eclipse (Dec 29, 1 BC), not the cramped 4 BC slot (March 13, 4 BC), syncing with Chabad’s 1 AD Archelaus rule.
TLW Blog Post - Part 1 https://thelambswife.blogspot.com/2025/02/022525-jesus-yeshuah-king-messiah.html (02/25/25 ~ Jesus (YeshuaH יְשׁוּעָה): The King Messiah)
Chabad’s Timeline https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/3915966/jewish/Timeline-of-Jewish-History.htm (Timeline of Jewish History)
Thanks to xAI’s “GROK 3” for helping me put this blog post together, I love that it can also give its opinion! If you don’t like mine or its conclusions … by all means challenge it for yourselves. https://grok.com/
